Guest series with Susan McDonald, UK Energy Transition Lead, Net Zero Transformation, Deloitte

00:00:05 – Kyle Murchie
Hello and welcome to another podcast at Roadnight Taylor. I’m Kyle Murchie and today I’m joined by Susan McDonald from Deloitte.
Hi Susan.

00:00:15 – Susan McDonald
Hey, Kyle.

00:00:16 – Kyle Murchie
So today we are going to be discussing what we do best – discussing, obviously, what’s happening within the industry, within the energy industry, and something that we’ve been talking about quite a lot on a number of podcasts recently has been the kind of change in the connections world, focusing on Connection Reform, the Clean Power Plan for 2030 and something that’s always been talked about, but we’ve never really got into some of the detail, and the nitty gritty, has been not just what developers need to do and the raising the bar for developers, but also what’s happening with new infrastructure and from whether that’s the TO’s infrastructure, the DNO’s infrastructure and also the infrastructure of those looking to decarbonise.

So today we thought we’ve got Susan in the room, we thought why not have a bit of a chat through some of those challenges, some of the opportunities as well, and just get a feel from your perspective as a senior manager at Deloitte and just kind of, yeah, see where we go from there.

So, I suppose, as a bit of an opener, one of the big things that we’ve been talking about most recently is the amount of infrastructure that needs to be built in the coming years. I think one of the statistics is double the amount of infrastructure that was built in the last 10 years, in the next five years to come – so quite a challenge on a number of different scales. So, I just wanted to get your opening thoughts on some of those challenges and the key aspects that we need to be focusing on.

00:01:47 – Susan McDonald
So I mean, when you pick that kind of statistic and kind of just take a step back, you know I mean, wow, we’ve got an incredible challenge and also scale to really rise as an industry, but an opportunity to really be seized for the UK. In terms of the opportunity, certainly when you look at our position in the global kind of platform, we’ve really got some really great expertise in offshore wind. But I think we also need to be really focused on how we deliberately focus on not only how do we use the UK as an example for clean power, but how do we export that capability in a global platform. So, I think that’s the opportunity and I think what does that mean? I think when you think about what does that mean, I really care about what does that mean for people that are already in the industry, new people coming to the industry and, more importantly, the communities and stakeholders that we work with. We’ve got a lot of infrastructure that’s going to be built and there’s obviously a lot of encouraging focus around community investment that’s coming out from government and stakeholders, but we need to ensure that communities are seeing the benefit. I don’t think anyone would question it’s been a difficult number of years from an economic perspective – the shocks and the energy crisis. So, we really need to ensure that we’re investing, that we’re also ensuring that there is that benefit and that buy-in, and we also need to ensure that for some communities, where they are hosting that infrastructure and perhaps you’re not seeing the direct benefit, although indirect, because we all access energy in some way or form that there is a conversation around how they’re brought on that journey and a conversation around compensation. So, I think that’s the opportunity and I think it’s an exciting time for us to really, you know we are a customer focused industry, but I think that needs to be hyped up even more.

But then there’s that you talked about what the challenge is. I think you talked about scale and pace, and for that we need to have the capacity. We need to have the capacity in terms of the skills and the capacity with regards to the equipment and assets that we can actually both design, and construct, and deliver. And I think, from an equipment perspective, we have to recognise we don’t have all this manufacturing base currently within the UK – that’s an open question. So we need to ensure that the UK is both attractive for inward investment, but we’re also attractive in securing that supply chain. Your time has gone where it’s a buyer’s market, we’re in a seller’s market and we’re competing on a UK versus X country basis. And you, when you look at some of the some of the initiatives worldwide, you see other organisations are able to take a different approach because they have a different economic and a very different regulatory structure. So, the challenges really kind of boil down to building capacity and supply chain, really focusing around providing certainty, volumes, as well as early engagement and commitments; and some of those commitments will need to be financial and that’s already started. And from you, for me it’s exciting workforce and now I’m an engineer, so I’m always going to be biased; we need more engineers, but actually we need to build in more capacity, you know both in planning and environmental, because we’ve got a challenge ahead and we need to get ahead of that.

00:05:24 – Kyle Murchie
Brilliant and actually just touching on skills and that workforce, and obviously you and I have known one another for about 15 years now, and quite often we think that well, I sometimes still do think that we’re still the young ones in the industry, but we’ve got to quite quickly realise hmmm maybe that’s not quite as much of the case as it was a few years back. So, yeah, obviously a lot of new people coming into the workforce and whether that’s coming in from you know, school and training and universities etc. But also, other people from other parts of the industry, kind of wider energy industry or outside the energy industry, the growth is substantial, you know, very, very significant. So how do you find, particularly with the work that you’re doing and the kind of client base that you’ve got, how’s that being managed, what’s the challenges and, I suppose, any tips and techniques that you’ve come across?

00:06:17 – Susan McDonald
Yes, I think I mean from some really exciting conversations happening across industry, and that includes both your clients that are delivering infrastructure are either entering into the market, providing the actual skilled workforce into industry, and those that provide that kind of engineering design consultancy.

There’s a big question of actually do we know what skills we need to deliver that Clean Power 2030 plan, so that horizon to 2030 to 2035? What are those gaps and how are we addressing it? And so I do think there’s a question still that we need to get greater visibility and transparency. Because it’s part of work with a client who’s a transmission owner, I’ve engaged and spoken to all the supply chain in electricity transmission infrastructure, specifically across a number of elements that included transformers, to switch gear, high voltage, direct current cables, civils, vessels, and converters, etc. And each organisation is investing in upskilling, in training, in engagement at a school level all the way through to enabling people to do career switching as well between industries. And I think the one thing through that interviews and those conversations is there’s a need for more an industrial approach. So I know there’s been a number of consultations out in industry, one of the ones that is one of many of particular interest is the industrial strategy, because that really needs to help set that pace.

But I think, at an industry level kind of energy perspective, there’s a number of responses that I’m supporting with and I know you’re supporting with your clients, and we’re very much focusing on a number of areas, but also the needs to provide visible, transparent requirements of infrastructure and therefore the type of workforce, because there’s a slight, for some clients who are supporting organisations deliver, there’s a nervousness. They’ve scaled before and the actual, the delivery of the project, was changed or there was a change in policy that didn’t require that project anymore. To the other end, other project, other organisations are just going -we’re just going to scale because we will not have the trained people to deliver this, and they want to get ahead of that and really taking that a strategic business decision, and we almost need to find those organisations that are commercial but we need to help them in terms of a policy clarity and, so do you think there’s a need? My personal view is we need that; a really focused industry forum that is talking around skills, and you know, I think we’re getting there, but we need to see it happen soon, and we can’t wait another 12 to 18 months to see some of the other strategic plans in the back of it – we need to have that conversation now.

00:09:26 – Kyle Murchie
There’s some really good points, because you mentioned consultations and we quite often talk to our viewers about many consultations – 10 in the last six months just in the connections world but of course, as you say, there are plenty more consultations in the wider industry and I think we do get opportunities, like the Ofgem’s end-to-end review that’s open at the moment, there is an opportunity to talk about transparency of data and that’s probably more aimed, I would say, at the connection space and kind of facilitated connections. But, as you say, it all comes back to again, well what do you need? You know we need that data to understand what is going to be built out, where the focus needs to be, and therefore, yes, there’s maybe opportunities in various different consultations to put that forward. But it’s a good point you raise about actually just having a central focus on that workforce and that development to make sure it…

00:10:20 – Susan McDonald
And it’s interesting because obviously that role that you’re playing and all of us in responding, is that a voice, voice of the customer, voice of the supply chain, because actually, in some ways there’s some nuances that need to be surfaced. So in some of the work we identified, I mean there’s this magic number, like people are unwilling to travel beyond three hours, and so you start looking at well, you look at the UK map, you think about where big infrastructure requirements are. You know the potential need for peak and for peak construction, they might need potentially three to four thousand people on that site, and it is three hours away from a central belt, whether you’re looking at different parts of country. So then, okay, you’re like wow, okay, people are making that decision and that’s been slightly kind of informed since post-COVID.

And then the next question is about welfare requirements and people are also looking for wider things as part of what they’d expect from a client. So it’s not just around having nice accommodation, actually it’s having access to potentially be able to watch their favourite movie or favourite sport. The other is that ability to have the latest mobile phone and it’s those that voice of the customer, the stakeholder, and again, that’s a little bit nuanced because it’s more specific around how we support people that are delivering this work and you know it’s on site and therefore potentially away from their families at a certain length of time. It’s those anecdotes that are really important we surface because we need to get that out in terms of how does the regulatory policy enable and support organisations to do that, so we’ve got a sustainable workforce that normally want to work and deliver for the next five years but are here to 2050 and that’s some of those nuances we need to kind of bring out.

00:12:11 – Kyle Murchie
Yeah, time scale is always the kind of key focus, you know you’ve got clean power 2030, obviously a very focused plan for 2030, but you’re absolutely right in terms of your time scale, kind of thinking much further ahead. And it’s interesting as well you, we see it with some of our clients as well that that change between post pre and post COVID, I suppose those expectations, and earlier when we were chatting, we mentioned about AI as well and how that’s being used now or not, and I suppose, the opportunities of that as we move forward, not just you’re replacing traditional tasks or taking on additional tasks, but being used as a support tool and kind of enabling more and more to be done within a either shorter period of time or by kind of fewer individuals.

So it’s, I think, just thinking about that then, I suppose, as we’re talking there about skills and a lot to do in that space, but how quickly can that transition really happen and that kind of pace that we’re on at the moment, because it does feel in the connections world it’s been, for those listeners that are still with us, 2024 has been such a busy year, a lot of change, even just in quite a narrow part of the market, but when it’s obviously fundamental to getting either decarbonisation completed, or new renewables and low carbon technologies onto the system. But with that pace, even just 2024 is only going to increase as we move into delivery phases. So what’s going to be your view on the pace of change and how have you been dealing with that with some of your client base?

00:13:51 – Susan McDonald
Yeah, so it’s an interesting one. I mean, obviously we’re in the energy industry and first and foremost, we need to ensure that we’re delivering work safely. Whether you’re sat in an office, you need to have that one mind, those conversations at some point there is going to be a person or team that are going to be delivering work on site and coming in and working with you either, depending on the technology vector either high voltage electricity regardless of low voltage or gas that’s high pressured, but we are setting people to work at some point to deliver this. So obviously we’re speaking today post a storm weekend, and so just acknowledge that sometimes, when some of us are at home, actually we’ve got critical workers that are out there, along with emergency services, ensuring that the power stays on, and I think we sometimes you know when you come back to that pace, but when we talk about pace we kind of forget actually, you know the outcome is to deliver that infrastructure safely and make sure it can be operated and maintained through the course of its life so we ultimately can go about our daily lives in a safe and comfortable way, and I think with that in mind, we can’t compromise that safety.

00:15:13 – Kyle Murchie
So I’m really glad you mentioned safety, because it’s something that over the last few months there’s been so much focus on technical aspects of the process, new processes, new ways to accelerate. You know you touched on that, it’s not that you can’t accelerate everything, some things you can’t it’s about finding what’s more sufficient. But the actual word safety and that whole kind of safety concept, I wouldn’t necessarily say people have put it to one side, but it hasn’t been the focus and I think it’s really really good point to raise because at the end of the day, we all want to go home safely, and particularly the likes of ourselves and others in the industry who are in a position to write the policies and procedures and be involved in forming what that looks like, we need to make sure that our colleagues that are actually, as you put it, on the ground delivering are in a really safe place and that we keep that innovation there.

I’m recalling one project where, you know during the infrastructure part of the build, there was an ambulance on site for the full duration of the build and it’s amazing how much of a benefit that had. It did actually save lives and things that would have naturally happened, you know, wasn’t necessarily caused by the job, but from a safety perspective, you know something that has a heart attack or something along those lines you’ve got that infrastructure there to support directly and yeah. So I suppose just kind of touching on that a little bit more what are you seeing at the moment in terms of the strategic approach to safety? Do you think we’re there with that and that’s progressing, or do you think we need to be a bit more focused in that area?

00:16:52 – Susan McDonald
Do you know what, I’m sure people when they kind of if they’ve been in another industry before they’ve come into the energy industry, they probably feel that straight away, in terms of the safety moments, the focus around regardless if you sit in an office versus outside, that focus around you know trips and falls and I, you know, I think you could feel that straight away. It’s just more of a, I think we just have to acknowledge with pace that, you know, in terms of any, we have design principles as it must not compromise the safety and well-being and when we talk about pace, you know, in terms of any, when we have design principles, is it must not compromise the safety and well-being and when we talk about pace, you know we also talk about how do we help people you know be sustainable in terms of their work because there’s going to be a real ask of people to not, you know, and they’re already doing that today, but to deliver more in a short period of time. You know, to put it into scale, one of my clients has delivered one large high voltage direct current project previously; they’re now being asked to deliver six in the next five to seven years. I mean that is a significant difference in terms of both scale and there’s a real need to look at that portfolio management and I think also look at points of collaboration. So you see, I’m observing organisations really looking to engage with their supply chain much earlier, to really have those conversations around how do we, where do we accelerate? What is the design? But also look at actually, where do we share potentially some of the risks? But equally front and centre in any of the kind of organisational meetings I go to safety’s there, it’s just you can envision a world where we want to make sure that when people are making decisions at an individual level, they’re empowered to ensure that can’t be compromised.

00:18:49 – Kyle Murchie
Yeah, no, really really good points. And yeah, I think for those that have been in the industry for a while, as you say, you’re mentioning sort of safety moments, and today I was reverse parking, you know, consistently always reverse parking, holding the handrail, all those kind of usual things that are kind of drummed into you over many years. And there’s a good point as well with making that the new people coming into the industry as well they’re seeing that, which is brilliant. It’s then making sure that the new decisions that we’re making now have that in mind and kind of keep it at the focus.
I just want to touch on now into kind of collaboration, which you kind of brought up there, something that we are seeing more and more of as well, which is great. Collaboration and consortiums have been around for a while, it’s obviously not a new idea, but it’s been more difficult from a commercial sense to actually get that over the line. Quite often the initial conversations happen, but to make it commercially viable or to agree heads of terms etc become the stumbling blocks. Are you seeing that we’re now in a position where, as an industry, actually those barriers, so to speak, of entry are maybe now something that we can work through, mainly because either they’ve not become necessarily easier, but the size of the prize is much greater, whether that’s increasing cost of infrastructure, access to the supply chain, just creating better solutions as well. So yeah, what are your thoughts on the collaboration so far and where it’s going?

00:20:17 – Susan McDonald
Yeah, so I think for me the delivering net zero is underpinned by collaboration. I think you raise a good point like what do we mean by collaboration? Because it’s in a good way, it is used across lots of industry forums but it means different things to different people. So I don’t think it’s a common language across the industry because in a good way, sometimes it means it’s collaborating in terms of sharing knowledge management and sharing lessons learned, which is going to be really critical and that could be amongst major project delivery partners, you know certainly organisations like the Major Projects Association create those types of forums managing the commercial sensitivities, as well as you know Energy UK when they train energy bodies. So there’s those pockets there and there’s that knowledge management as well as that kind of representing the body voice, the voice of the industry. But there’s the kind of the commercial points of collaboration and I think the trend I’m seeing is more points of collaboration to access supply chain. Certainly, there was a big splash in the industry made by Tenant in terms of their visible focus around bringing like a 10-year visibility of their program of work at transmission level and I’ve been supporting my clients around actually how do they do that? But do that in a deliberate way and ensuring they secure the supply chain, but also continue to foster conversations around ensuring that those organisations are not only delivering for them, but they’re also delivering for the communities, and so, I’m seeing with one of my clients, you know, not only have they secured the supply chain, which is really critical to deliver their infrastructure for 2030, though they’re also making sure that the supply chain partners are really looking at how did they make a base and have a presence in the local community that they’re serving and being really mindful of what it means to actually be part of that community, because they will be part of that community over the life of that project.
So certainly, that’s the trend and I think that will only continue, and I think there’s already collaboration at an educational level. We both were IET Power Academy students, that was a real good example of collaboration between universities and industry to help very much stimulate power system engineers, but also people into the energy industry. I think that needs to continue and really be amplified, and certainly there’s lots of different career paths into the energy sector. Here we’ve got apprenticeships, foundation engineers, but I’d also, like you know, that needs focus, but I’d like us to also talk more deliberately around career switchers, and also as a recent mum and parent how are we making sure we’re accessing all parts of the talent pool we have here in the UK?

00:23:27 – Kyle Murchie
That really brings me on to a brilliant point where we haven’t prepared this before, so I’m going to give you a quick-fire question. So, thinking about 2025 in particular we’ve talked about challenges and opportunities; I want to maybe pull out three, top three opportunities for 2025 that you think will set us up really well for out to 2030 and beyond. I know it’s a bit of a big ask picking just three, but kind of top three to top five maybe.

00:23:58 – Susan McDonald
Yes. So I mean well, 2025 is nearly upon us and it’s an important mark because it’s five years before our key milestone for 2030. So I think if I just focus my ask for 2025 from an energy industry perspective because I’ll have a number of other things.

I think the first, my work in the last few years is very much focused on market insights around supply chain, and I think the first would be actually there’s a need for us to actually do that at a UK industry level. There’s been some great work undertaken by other organisations, and I think there’s a need to have a UK kind of transmission owner electricity transmission view so we can really direct actions and execute against some of those recommendations that were here. We’ve seen positive progress through the accelerated strategic transmission investment, the capacity reservation agreements, the current conversation around advanced procurement mechanisms, but the insights from engaging with the supply chain and key stakeholders have identified other pockets that I think are really useful for us to take at that industry level.

I think the second is the skills, and what I’d like to see is a real focus around understanding what do we need and where are we and how do we work collectively? There’s pockets of collaborations, but I think we need to amplify that and I think the third, and it relates to the skills, is we need to have a really good value proposition. You know we need to, I am a board and trustee member of the Women’s Engineering Society, so really ensuring that women engineers’ voices and our members are heard, but also, equally their organisations are thinking about how do they support women engineers as part of attracting and retaining them? And there’s some very disappointing news that in recent Engineering UK study that we’re losing around a number of women in the ages 35 to 44 from the profession, and so that’s slightly frustrating. So it’s how do we have a value proposition that not only is attractive to new recruits – who wouldn’t want to be part of helping decarbonise our economy, you know help ensure that communities have safe and reliable electricity and, the important one, affordable is where we need to get to. But equally, how do we make sure we have an engaged and retained workforce? And I think, as I said, I think we need to get that campaign out there, because we need more people, and there’s a lot of attraction to those being, it’s like, how do we tap into content creators and you know where some of the new channels recruits are looking at, and I’m not on TikTok, but I know TikTok is very, is something that people really engage with, at kind of an early careers level.

00:27:15 – Kyle Murchie
We’re showing our age now, aren’t we?

00:27:16 – Susan McDonald
I know we are.

And then, equally for those that are in the industry, we need that knowledge, we need that inherent built-up expertise, and knowledge needs to be retained. So I’d really be excited around having a campaign that actually was exciting, and people knew how electricity worked, and I think there’s so much to be said around what David Attenborough has done around nature and conservation. We need a David Attenborough for the energy industry.

00:27:51 – Kyle Murchie
Fantastic, no really good points, and I’m thinking at the moment of who that David Attenborough could be; nominations please do follow them across to us after this podcast.

No really good points, and particularly on those kind of latter two around the skills and the workforce, and you mentioned kind of women in the industry and women in engineering, but also women more worldly in the energy industry and particularly moving into the top positions. It’s something that is quite close to Roadnight Taylor’s heart, you know we’re very much supportive of a number of different campaigns and I know that one thing that you’re looking at as well, with a lot of the work that you’ve been doing, is a big trip coming up next year and I want to explore a little bit about how that came about and that link with the women in the industry aspects that you’ve been really focusing on and what you and the others are aiming to get out of that trip? I’d be really excited to hear a bit more.

00:28:54 – Susan McDonald
Just placing a reference on it. When you look at, if we look at the energy industry, there’s some really good statistics and powerful women. And I say good statistics because they’re not good, but they’re good because they’re visible and they make they allow us to have good conversation and really focus on what action we need to take. And so powerful women published their recent statistics, you know, and it showed you, only 20% of energy organisations have women on their boards and even less so in terms of non-execs. And so for me, when you look at that, you go well, we’ve got fantastic talent and all, any industry has so much talent across the value chain and it’s for me, it’s such an exciting career and we need to try and change how we pull through all aspects of diversity.
And at the moment, I focus on women because I’m a woman and the challenge also you were observing is that age gap between 35 to 44 from an engineering profession perspective, and I’m in that age bracket, I’m 37. And I’m a new mum I also am passionate about my job, I personally work full time – that works for me, I’ve got all the care responsibilities in. But it frustrates me to think that we either are underutilizing or not tapping into all our talent, so that that’s an anchor in terms of kind of what that passion and motivation…

00:30:26 – Kyle Murchie
And just to pick on that, because you know some of those statistics are as you say it’s good that they’re visible, but they’re also shocking. But also quite well, even for me, kind of hearing that you sometimes feel that’s a little bit surprising because a lot of the businesses that we may work with actually have much, much better statistics. That therefore just shows that actually when you get into the nitty gritty of all organisations across the industry, that actually there are a lot of businesses, key businesses, that are going to be really important in delivering the net zero transition, that don’t have that level of diversity.

00:31:02 – Susan McDonald
Yeah, and that’s a really good challenge because there are organisations that, although they might have that challenge at that kind of board and senior level, they’re absolutely delivering on programmes and actions. But you know, I think we need to ensure that we’re bringing talent, we’re pulling talent through and acknowledge those that are doing it well. And again it comes back to that collaboration learn from people that are doing it well.

And you mentioned the trips; so for those that are listening, I’m voyaging to Antarctica in January and February in 2025 and that sounds really incredible in itself, just saying that, but I think it’s really important to kind of provide the background. So it’s part of a leadership program and it’s something that I’ve self-funded; so that’s a, you know, that’s a big ask, and I’m not around making that commitment, some of the other women on the trip are being funded through their organisations or through their universities, but on a personal level, it’s been fascinating. So I’ve completed a 12-month programme and that programme was around leadership qualities and it really the premise of homeward bound is around how do we ensure we elevate women with science, technology, engineering, mathematics and medicine to drive and really focus on how do we deliver a sustainable future, recognising that we as women or females or those that identify as non-binary, we are disproportionately impacted by climate change. And then, second, our voices aren’t at the seat of the table. You know there’s enough evidence there around the voice of scientists in the COP policy decision-making and when you look at the makeup of governance and national governments making those decisions. So it’s really an inward challenge, along with this group of another incredible 100, more than 100 women, to really challenge yourself individually. Where are you driving impact, both a reflection both in your personal lives, in your communities, as well as your professional lives, and also in doing so actually, how do we work through this global network together to identify points of collaboration, coming back to that, that kind of that word around driving action, whether that be through attracting more people into sustainability or into the energy sector if that’s your focus, or indeed actually looking at how do we use our voices to campaign as well as really shape policy. And you know, for me personally, since completing my 12 months and the voyage will culminate in it it’s really helped me think around how I use my voice more intentionally, not just within Deloitte and with my clients, but also outside and since that program, I’ve applied for and been successful in a board position, a non-exec position with the James Hutton Institute, a really incredible independent research organisation looking at the use of land, sustainable crops and food security, doing incredible work and around ensuring I’m providing my kind of strategy and energy lens to that and to these incredible organisation and, most recently, the board and trustee role with the Women’s Engineering Society, so really identifying areas that absolutely align with my focus. But how am I helping really scale my impact?

So I have been in cold weather before I think I don’t know, I’m sure listeners have probably picked up on a Scottish accent; it is from Glasgow believe it or not, that I’ve been slightly attracted to cold environments. So I did, again, self-funded, go to the Arctic, gosh back in 2014 as part of an Earthwatch research institute expedition into climate change at the Arctic’s edge. This July I was in with Earthwatch again in Iceland doing research into killer whales incredible, incredible opportunity to just be so close but also support really difficult fieldwork but also to ensure that we understand better and help protect them and our oceans.

So, yes, another trip to a cold environment, but ultimately what excites me is the opportunity to learn. It’s a fragile environment. There’s been a real question of, and we’ve had debate as a group around to voyage or not to voyage because of the implications around the carbon impact and travel, and so some people are choosing not to travel – so really interesting conversations. For me, I’m choosing to travel, both to connect with people that I have spoken to virtually, but also to really have a space to really think around what it means in terms of what we’re trying to protect and try and bring that lived story back to my personal life, to my community, and to work.

00:36:24 – Kyle Murchie
Absolutely, because I was going to say the amount of time, because is it 25 days?

00:36:28 – Susan McDonald
Yes, I’ll be away for 25 days, so the voyage is around just kind of 16 days depending on weather.

00:36:33 – Kyle Murchie
Okay, yes, that’s quite a long period to be in that sort of environment where you’re on that cold face of, no pun intended with temperature, but you’re seeing the impact of climate change. We’re not going to get into that debate, but effectively you’re getting to see that kind of first hand but also be in a space where you can be creative. You’ve got nothing else, no other distractions really, which must be quite a unique situation to be in to have all that time to really focus on what you’re going to do, what can be done as a community, but also what can be done from your perspective and having that efficiency and focus of impact.

00:37:17 – Susan McDonald
Yeah, and do you know what, it’s one of those things I think lived experience is really important and by no means everyone’s like, well, it sounds like an incredible holiday and actually I mean I’m sure it’ll be incredible, but a holiday it’s not. It will be, I think it’s 6:30 to 8.30 – it will be intense sessions. We will, you know, weather and safety permitting, we will go on to the ice shelf and be very mindful of biosecurity as part of that. But really look at, you know, that environment we’re in and we’ll be put through our paces to really challenge ourselves and what our ambitions and plans are in our professional lives and personally. We’ll be sharing a room with people we’ve been on this virtual leadership programme together, but doing that and then living in close quarters, as well as living in close quarters on the ship, having very little space to yourself, it will really force the points of collaborating and listening and you know creating spaces for other people to voice what it means for them. Because my environment here you know, okay, I’m from Scotland, I live near London, my experience is going to be very different for someone who’s living in sub Africa, to that in China to that in South America.

For example, there’s a person that was based out in South Africa and she would often have intermittent power cuts and so it was all virtual. So when you were having some group sessions, you just know that you actually were gonna extend an hour, 20 minutes to allow her to come back in and get the benefit of the team thing, so that ability to really both listen but acknowledge you know what the transition we’re going through in the UK is it going to be a very different journey for others? And actually, how do we make those connections you know, yes I’m interested in how we get there at UK level, but you know we have to get there globally.

00:39:32 – Kyle Murchie
Yeah, it’s really interesting as well as that kind of perception as well, you know we in the UK now have that perception that you’ll always be on, you know, power cuts seen as relatively rare thing for most, you know, certainly and kind of a more in central areas. So, yeah, that must be a really interesting aspect to kind of leave on that global approach, that global appreciation and in an environment where you can really kind really take that away and learn. Something we’ve been trying to do at Roadnight Taylor is go in a transition over the last year of moving to a four-day working week – it was last year that we made that decision, and it was implemented. But some of those points you talk about there in terms of efficiency and trying to understand what you do as an individual and that impact and really focusing on individuals’ impact has been really interesting for us all to kind of learn and adapt with.

I think we might have to get you back in after you’ve had your trip and conclude your course off, because it sounds like there’ll be an awful lot of opportunity to take those points out as well. And it’s really important to share with listeners as well, because you know, as we move forward, everything we’ve talked about it’s going to fill up our careers, and from a very good point, but there’s also a lot of work to be done, but we also need to make sure that we are being as impactful as individuals and then also being able to have the time away from the industry and doing things that we enjoy doing, whether it’s family, whether it’s sport, whatever it happens to be, because you know, as we’ve found with lots of studies, it proves that coming back fresh and being able to really focus in on what we’re doing, is really important, which I think for some years, some of that has maybe kind of been put to the put the side to some extent. So, yeah, really interesting time as an industry, but I think, yeah, fantastic, kind of good luck with everything you’re doing next year. So, remind me, what date is it?

00:41:34 – Susan McDonald
Yes, so I depart from London the 23rd of January and then formally we voyage on the 26th. So, yes, I’m very good at sea but we’re getting some really good guidance around, hopefully the wave height is quite reasonable, but we’ll have to prepare ourselves for some high waves. But I think the point you made was a really good reflection actually around you’ll be talking about scale, acceleration, we need to sustainably grow, and I think that’s going to feel different for depending which part of the industry you sit on and what it means for you individually, where you are personally. But the fact that your organisation would like to take a decision four days a week, part of that is like how do you support people? Because we’re not going to get there, we’re not going to get to net zero alone, and so I think that’s quite exciting and encouraging to hear that you’re taking some steps. So I’m sure there’s lots of lessons learned for organisations to really hear from that as well.

00:42:43 – Kyle Murchie
Absolutely, and Hugh is very, very supportive of others definitely learning from that as well, you know, learning from the positives and the negatives although I must admit there have been that many of them. And yeah, and then thinking about, as you say, that sustainability, for not just sustainability in terms of around sustainability, but actually from the people’s perspective of you know that the individuals within the industry that still want to be very happy in the industry in 10, 20 years to come.

Well, I think we’ll bring it to a close there. So, thank you very much, Susan. It’s been a pleasure to converse with you and really pick up on some really important points, and thank you very much for everybody who’s listening. We will, I’m sure, see you on another podcast or webinar in the not-too-distant future, but for now, Susan, thank you very much.

00:43:32 – Susan McDonald
Thank you.